Grand theft auto FLORIDA - Gianni's Bar and Grille. Guns and shit. And Bourbon. And occasional side boob

taco · 4th October 2005, 15:43

Im not sure whats worse, doing this in Oakland or Florida.
Either way, i think the casket sales will go up in florida.

Quote:


	Group Warns Florida Tourists They Could Be Shot POSTED: 5:52 am CDT October 4, 2005 MIAMI -- Florida has a new law that gives legal protection to someone who shoots somebody else as long as the shooter feels threatened or is attacked. Florida's "stand your ground" law, which took effect Saturday, says citizens no longer are obligated to retreat from an attack if they're somewhere they have a legal right to be, such as a public street. Shooters also get immunity from prosecution so long as the person shot is not a police officer. One gun control activist said there is no other state in the nation and no other civilized nation on Earth that has a law like this. And one visitor to Miami said "it's a little scary" learning about the new Florida gun law. A gun control group is handing out leaflets at Miami International Airport, making sure tourists are aware of a new law that gives greater legal protections to people who shoot or use other deadly force. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence tells visitors, "do not argue unnecessarily with local people." It says, "If someone appears to be angry with you, maintain to the best of your ability a positive attitude, and do not shout or make threatening gestures." Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm says Florida's new "stand your ground" law could cause the most aggressive people in society to overreact. Gov. Jeb Bush has denounced the Brady Campaign as "pure, unadulterated politics." But the tourism industry is taking the campaign seriously. Visit Florida said Florida is "very safe" and that the Brady Campaign is "one group's political agenda." Supporters of the law, pushed by the National Rifle Association, say it will make Florida safer

4th October 2005, 15:54

awesome.

AnimalChin · 4th October 2005, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hung0v3r


	awesome.

i think so too. we'll see how it goes and/or how long it lasts.

Rooflechicken · 4th October 2005, 16:54

the bad part is no matter how many people are justified, one asshole will fuck it up and suddenly it will be the leading cause of death.

4th October 2005, 16:57

no. the bad part is they had to make a law so you could defend youraself and your fuckign property without going to prison

taco · 4th October 2005, 17:05

Florida is a shithole

4th October 2005, 17:18

1) Timeline

2) LOTS of states have similar laws on the books and the streets are not flowing with blood. Comments that Florida is breaking ground on this are fucking IGNORANT.

3) ANYTHING the Brady Bunch says is a fucking lie. If they say the sky is blue, it is a sure fucking bet it's red.

4) FUCK do I hate reading articles by ignorant cockwipes about this shit when they have no earthly fucking idea what the sam hill they are fucking talking about.

5)

Quote:


	The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence tells visitors, "do not argue unnecessarily with local people." It says, "If someone appears to be angry with you, maintain to the best of your ability a positive attitude, and do not shout or make threatening gestures." Brady Campaign spokesman Peter Hamm says Florida's new "stand your ground" law could cause the most aggressive people in society to overreact.

You stupid fucking cocksucking prick fagg0t. "Most agressive people in society"? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF VIOLENT CRIME IS COMMITTED BY PEOPLE WHO LEGALLY CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS? *********** 0.3% ************ Less than one third of one fucking percent you filthy semen soaked shitty drop of Village People ass cheese.

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(beep)

Rooflechicken · 4th October 2005, 17:25

My understanding is this is slightly different though Mal, I would say correct me if I'm wrong but you'll correct me even if I'm right.

Used to be, you could shoot if it was the last possible only way of saving your own life.

Now, someone's in your face, you can do something about it instead of waiting for them to throw the first blow.

I can guarantee you, this would have totally changed the way I dealt with stalker boy a few weeks ago.

tell me I'm wrong not (beep)

5th October 2005, 11:27

The new law does only one thing to alter whether the man would see your use of deadly physical force as justified, remove your DUTY to retreat. Your decision to use deadly physical force must still meet the standard for being reasonable along with whatever else is codified. There is more to the FL statute than they put in shitty liberal newspaper articles, and often the duty to retreat didn't really exist anyhow other than on paper.

In short, if you are on the sidewalk and some thug suprises you and sticks a gun in your face demanding yo money or you life, you do not have a duty to run away from said thug before shooting him. You really didn't before. There is no REASONABLE retreat from a drawn gun at that range. You have to act to save your own life. Kill the fucker any way you can. Where the law is good is that now the PA can't say "Why didn't you disarm him and run away?" in court. It's an easily shot down question, but now it's off the table.

THe other yardsticks for whether deadly force is reasonable are all still in effect. The bad guy has to have ability and opportunity to put you in jeopardy. You can't escalate the situation then shoot somebody. In short, if you can retreat, DO. Florida always adhered to castle doctrine- if you are in your castle, you don't have to jump out a back window to leave it to an intruder, you can stop the bastard. That said, if I'm in the back room and I think the best chance for me to survive the encounter is to get out the window, I am gone.

If you are saying you would have confronted psycho stalker the other day if Montana had a make my day law, I disagree that this would have been the best course of action. The best way to win a gun fight is to avoid one regardless of politics. I don't think Montana has duty to retreat on the books anyhow (I didn't check, I'm going from memory).

I don't know a responsible deadly force instructor who would suggest anything but a retreat if you have a safe one regardless of state laws. It's a good way to test whether the criminal has you in jeopardy. If you can retreat safely, you're not in jeopardy. If you can't, now you don't have to try, but you only did on paper before.

Should point out that the reasonable man is a man knowing what you know. Training here can be your friend. I know how fast a man can go from brandishing a weapon to shooting at me. I know how fast I can draw and fire and that it takes a while for people to die from pistol rounds. It is therefore easier for me to enunciate why I had no safe means of retreat. See?

5th October 2005, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooflechicken


	Used to be, you could shoot if it was the last possible only way of saving your own life.

Or saving another life, or stopping a felony, or avoiding grievous bodily injury etc.

Quote:


	Now, someone's in your face, you can do something about it instead of waiting for them to throw the first blow.

No.

I walk up to you, shove you and call you a stupid honkey melonfarmer. You gonna shoot me? I'm in your face. Jerk. Come on, shoot me. DO IT, pansy. FAGG0RT. shove. shove. I'm gonna screw your woman and take her Zeno shirt. Come on, jerk, what you gonna do, I AM IN YOUR FACE! I'm gonna beat you up!

BLAM?

Of course not. Don't fall for the liberal claptrap on this. AOJ.

taco · 5th October 2005, 11:34

On a related note,

If i have only 6 and 8 shot .12 gauge rounds handy, what is my effective human kill range?

Is it like point blank?

Hondo · 5th October 2005, 11:41

Buy some 00 or 000 buckshot shells already. Stopping your target is entirely dependant on tissue disruption and blood loss. breaking major load bearing bones is also a plus. While using that kind of small shot on a human target would eventually get it done it is by no means a fast way to do it. If you're inside 20 feet it's gonna do some damage but nothing like the heavier gauge shells.

5th October 2005, 11:45

Longer than point blank, but I wouldn't take on a human beyond about 3 feet from the muzzle with bird shot. At across the room range a heavy leather coat will stop it.

Close to the muzzle it's effective because it's basically one wad of lead. Once it spreads out, forget it.

Get some 00 and back that up w/ slugs. Beware that each 00 pellet will cut through several interior sheetrock walls.

If you are worried about shooting through walls and hitting the tacofamily, some folks like #4 buck as a compromise. I don't because since it lacks penetration in walls it also lacks penetration in bodies. I say shoot low to high, beware of your backgrounds, have a plan, don't miss. Teach the tacofamily to get down. You shoot from a crouch or kneel at a presumably standing bad guy. If you miss, the angles are such that rounds should go over their heads. Train them to get to cover or concealment whereever it might be in their rooms if the shit hits the fan.

5th October 2005, 11:50

See what the http://www.theboxotruth.com/ has to say about shotgun rounds vs. interior walls.

Birdshot went through one piece of sheetrock, stopped at the second.

My forehead is a more effective man stopper than birdshot.

ez075736 · 5th October 2005, 11:52

To the gun experts here, i have limited gun knowledge as i've never been a hunter or around them much. Yes i have shot some hand guns but i'd almost gaurentee you've shot more rounds in a day than i've done ever on a hand gun. i've probably cleared a magazine on a 9mm Beretta, 10mm S&W, and a .357. I've shot a bunch using my .22 Browning T-bolt rifle but that doesn't count.

I have been thinking about getting a shot gun for a couple years. It'd mostly be used for security and target shooting (probably not skeet). Do you have a recomendation or what i would be looking for in a shot gun for those purposes? Is there a good option that would also work for hunting if i ever chose to do that?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Hondo · 5th October 2005, 11:52

Or you could have them live in the garage.

Your pattern is also dependant on if your shotgun barrel has choke tubes too. You can alter the pattern a great deal with them.

Hondo · 5th October 2005, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ez075736


	Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Cheap side: Remington 870

Mid- range side: Remington 1187 or 1100

Expensive side: Benelli M4

5th October 2005, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phix


	THIS CALLS FOR AN INVESTIGATION...................................

Fucking Colorado cocksuckers, this has dick to do with make my day laws. They are already starting what Chikkin said they'd do, attribute every death possible to this law.

This incident was basic fucking self defense. Armed assailant at arm's length. Shoot or beat him to the ground until he stops attacking you and if he dies oh well. NOTHING to do w/ make my day, everything to do with basic self defense. My head is going to assplode and it's only 10.

5th October 2005, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ez075736


	Do you have a recomendation or what i would be looking for in a shot gun for those purposes? Is there a good option that would also work for hunting if i ever chose to do that?

The 870 is a great defensive shotty, cheap and plentiful. Get one w/ a long shell tube (8 rounder),which is more than you'll need for hunting, but you just put a plug in it for bird hunting where you can only have 3 shells in the gun to be legal.

Mossberg makes a shotgun setup that you can buy w/ two barrels, a shorter "defensive" barrel, and a longer hunting barrel. That might be ideal for you if you'll really hunt with it. Most defensive guns that are inexpensive don't have chokes you can change, which you'll need for hunting.

Personally, I have a semi-auto 12 guage that I use for birds, it's got a lightweight aluminum receiver, pretty scroll work carved into it, shiny wood, and a longish barrel. I got it for ~$400

Then I have a $179 Winchester Defender pump w/ 7 round capacity, short barrel, and a pistol grip (with a stock, not just a pistol grip) for defending the house. I got it 'used' -- it was basically new with maybe 25 shells through it.

With as cheap as a good defensive gun can be (you can find used 870s for well under $200, as well as the aforementioned Winny and the Mossberg) you might afford to have a defense shotty and a hunting shotty?

I personally don't have much of a preference between the Remington, the Winny or the Mossberg, but the Remington is by far the most popular and available around here. The GLock of defensive shotguns.

Whatever you go with, make damn sure it works before you put it into service.

sandman · 5th October 2005, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phix


	http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...0484&qs=1;bp=t THIS CALLS FOR AN INVESTIGATION...................................

that's goddamned retarded...

Quote:


	the suspect tried to force his way into the home with a water pistol, she said.

4th October 2005, 15:54	#2
Hung0v3r Posts: n/a	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA awesome.

4th October 2005, 16:57	#5
Hung0v3r Posts: n/a	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA no. the bad part is they had to make a law so you could defend youraself and your fuckign property without going to prison

4th October 2005, 17:05	#6
taco don't tax me bro Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,175	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA Florida is a shithole __________________ [QUOTE-shiggity shane]I'm only as stupid as money can get me what I need, then I look good.[/quote]

5th October 2005, 11:27	#9
maladjusted Posts: n/a	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA The new law does only one thing to alter whether the man would see your use of deadly physical force as justified, remove your DUTY to retreat. Your decision to use deadly physical force must still meet the standard for being reasonable along with whatever else is codified. There is more to the FL statute than they put in shitty liberal newspaper articles, and often the duty to retreat didn't really exist anyhow other than on paper. In short, if you are on the sidewalk and some thug suprises you and sticks a gun in your face demanding yo money or you life, you do not have a duty to run away from said thug before shooting him. You really didn't before. There is no REASONABLE retreat from a drawn gun at that range. You have to act to save your own life. Kill the fucker any way you can. Where the law is good is that now the PA can't say "Why didn't you disarm him and run away?" in court. It's an easily shot down question, but now it's off the table. THe other yardsticks for whether deadly force is reasonable are all still in effect. The bad guy has to have ability and opportunity to put you in jeopardy. You can't escalate the situation then shoot somebody. In short, if you can retreat, DO. Florida always adhered to castle doctrine- if you are in your castle, you don't have to jump out a back window to leave it to an intruder, you can stop the bastard. That said, if I'm in the back room and I think the best chance for me to survive the encounter is to get out the window, I am gone. If you are saying you would have confronted psycho stalker the other day if Montana had a make my day law, I disagree that this would have been the best course of action. The best way to win a gun fight is to avoid one regardless of politics. I don't think Montana has duty to retreat on the books anyhow (I didn't check, I'm going from memory). I don't know a responsible deadly force instructor who would suggest anything but a retreat if you have a safe one regardless of state laws. It's a good way to test whether the criminal has you in jeopardy. If you can retreat safely, you're not in jeopardy. If you can't, now you don't have to try, but you only did on paper before. Should point out that the reasonable man is a man knowing what you know. Training here can be your friend. I know how fast a man can go from brandishing a weapon to shooting at me. I know how fast I can draw and fire and that it takes a while for people to die from pistol rounds. It is therefore easier for me to enunciate why I had no safe means of retreat. See?

5th October 2005, 11:34	#11
taco don't tax me bro Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 7,175	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA On a related note, If i have only 6 and 8 shot .12 gauge rounds handy, what is my effective human kill range? Is it like point blank? __________________ [QUOTE-shiggity shane]I'm only as stupid as money can get me what I need, then I look good.[/quote]

5th October 2005, 11:41	#12
Hondo I'll knock your chicklets hella the fuck out Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Southside Samoya Posts: 12,537	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA Buy some 00 or 000 buckshot shells already. Stopping your target is entirely dependant on tissue disruption and blood loss. breaking major load bearing bones is also a plus. While using that kind of small shot on a human target would eventually get it done it is by no means a fast way to do it. If you're inside 20 feet it's gonna do some damage but nothing like the heavier gauge shells. __________________ "Some of the most successful relationships are based on lies and deceit. Since that's where they usually end up anyway, it's a logical place to start." Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too

5th October 2005, 11:45	#13
maladjusted Posts: n/a	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA Longer than point blank, but I wouldn't take on a human beyond about 3 feet from the muzzle with bird shot. At across the room range a heavy leather coat will stop it. Close to the muzzle it's effective because it's basically one wad of lead. Once it spreads out, forget it. Get some 00 and back that up w/ slugs. Beware that each 00 pellet will cut through several interior sheetrock walls. If you are worried about shooting through walls and hitting the tacofamily, some folks like #4 buck as a compromise. I don't because since it lacks penetration in walls it also lacks penetration in bodies. I say shoot low to high, beware of your backgrounds, have a plan, don't miss. Teach the tacofamily to get down. You shoot from a crouch or kneel at a presumably standing bad guy. If you miss, the angles are such that rounds should go over their heads. Train them to get to cover or concealment whereever it might be in their rooms if the shit hits the fan.

5th October 2005, 11:50	#14
maladjusted Posts: n/a	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA See what the http://www.theboxotruth.com/ has to say about shotgun rounds vs. interior walls. Birdshot went through one piece of sheetrock, stopped at the second. My forehead is a more effective man stopper than birdshot.

5th October 2005, 11:52	#15
ez075736 Registered User I'm this close to silently protesting. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 420	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA To the gun experts here, i have limited gun knowledge as i've never been a hunter or around them much. Yes i have shot some hand guns but i'd almost gaurentee you've shot more rounds in a day than i've done ever on a hand gun. i've probably cleared a magazine on a 9mm Beretta, 10mm S&W, and a .357. I've shot a bunch using my .22 Browning T-bolt rifle but that doesn't count. I have been thinking about getting a shot gun for a couple years. It'd mostly be used for security and target shooting (probably not skeet). Do you have a recomendation or what i would be looking for in a shot gun for those purposes? Is there a good option that would also work for hunting if i ever chose to do that? Any suggestions would be appreciated. __________________ "Harmons: Killing the internet one post at a time."

5th October 2005, 11:52	#16
Hondo I'll knock your chicklets hella the fuck out Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Southside Samoya Posts: 12,537	Re: Grand theft auto FLORIDA Or you could have them live in the garage. Your pattern is also dependant on if your shotgun barrel has choke tubes too. You can alter the pattern a great deal with them. __________________ "Some of the most successful relationships are based on lies and deceit. Since that's where they usually end up anyway, it's a logical place to start." Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. But it rocks absolutely, too