My last post with the 4th ammendment got me thinking

And i re-read the bill of rights. Holy fuck is that thing long forgotten.

Quote: Amendment I - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This one i beleive is still in fine shape. There's always arguments about censorship etc, but as a whole we can freely say think, read, and view what we want when we want. The good news ends here.

Quote: Amendment II - Right to bear arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Can't carry without the govt's "permission" Can't own guns that "look" scary. Have to put my name on a list when i buy one. This one is in serious jeopardy. There are some that want this one to go away all together.

Quote: Amendment III - Quartering of soldiers. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

This one is fine. Never really been a problem. Good news that they haven't trampled it I guess.

Quote: Amendment IV - Search and seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

This one is fucked. They've whittled away at this for years. Wiretaps, electronic surveilance etc. Anyone who think the fbi, cops, dea, etc only tap with warrants is fucking blind and/or dumb. PAtriot Act makes it easier. The patriot act also will NOT be going away once the war on terror is over. It has actually been used for investigations other than terror MUCH MUCH more than for monitoring terrorists.

Quote: Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791. No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Ask someone in an imminent domain case if they were deprived of liberty and/or property unfairly and without trial. This one is slowly being whittled away.

Quote: Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

This one is in good shape, with the exception of the speedy part in hollywood.

Quote: Amendment VII - Trial by jury in civil cases. Ratified 12/15/1791. In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

This one is also ok.

Quote: Amendment VIII - Cruel and Unusual punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791. Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

I think this one is in good shape except for a few cases here and there. I'm not going to get into a death penalty arguement with you barbarians but othe rthan that pretty good.

Quote: Amendment IX - Construction of Constitution. Ratified 12/15/1791. The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

This means your right to bear arms cannot impede on my right to free speech. This means your right to come in my house when you have a warrant, doesn't negate my right to defend myself. This means that when you let negroes vote, you can't deny whitey his vote.

Quote: Amendment X - Powers of the States and People. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

THIS ONE IS ABSOLUTELY FUCKED. Anything not specifically given to the federal government in the constitution is for the states and/or the people to deal with. The means, federal housing, medicare, social security, goddamned near everything the feds do. It is WAY out of hand and too big to stop. I don't have a solution but i can clearly see the problem.

I don't agree with you re: the PATRIOT Act.

Go find me something that infringes on the Bill of Rights.

Sneak and Peak warrants, etc. were all around pre-PATRIOT and they still require judicial approval. There can and will always be fuckups within the system, but I don't see anything menacing in PATRIOT, and I've read it.

Have you read it? You don't have to read all the shit in there, but go to the ACLU bullshit pages and see what they have to say, then go read the entire sections they reference and you'll find them quoting shit way out of context and making unsubstantiated comments left and right, pulling a real :moore: on the whole thing.

[DieHippy]

Quote: Amendment III - Quartering of soldiers. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Cripes. I was planning on staying at NB's tonight until you reminded me.

[Stiffy]

Quote: Originally Posted by DieHippy Cripes. I was planning on staying at NB's tonight until you reminded me.

Roofies will keep her from objecting and Jorge will be too busy with Madden '06 to notice you hammering her skull through the foundation.

Quote: To deter and punish terrorist acts in the UNited States and around the world, to enhance law enforcement investigatory tools, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES

WTF? Other?

[Rooflechicken]

On behalf of the government and their attorneys, TL/DR.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hung0v3r WTF? Other?

That was conclusive.

That clause means about as much as the "under dog" added to the pledge.

[Rooflechicken]

I'd love to send a copy of that to my county attorney, and the state for that matter.

Quote: Originally Posted by maladjusted That was conclusive. That clause means about as much as the "under dog" added to the pledge.

plz watch file 307.avi on the dvd i sent you and come back. It's not about what powers are specifically given. It's about those who are given the power using it properly. They don't and won't use the further powers in the method intended. America became great because of self reliance and a general disrespect of authority. The government is slowly whittling it away and this is another step in that direction.

I will watch it and report back.

Sight unseen I will comment that if the concern is how the government uses its powers, again, the problem is not PATRIOT, which didn't really grant many new powers, it's government, as it always has been. PATRIOT is really a meaningless act, that made the sheep feel good, and now has angered the hippies, mostly for no reason whatsoever.

Quote: Originally Posted by maladjusted I will watch it and report back. Sight unseen I will comment that if the concern is how the government uses its powers, again, the problem is not PATRIOT, which didn't really grant many new powers, it's government, as it always has been. PATRIOT is really a meaningless act, that made the sheep feel good, and now has angered the hippies, mostly for no reason whatsoever.

if the problem is government why would you post defending giving them more (or more specific) powers?

Because PATRIOT didn't really do that, other than in the eyes of the all-knowing media.

Making it possible for FBI, CIA, and cops to share information is not granting the gov more power, it's enabling more efficient war on terror, which if we're not careful will be as lame as the war on drugs.

My challenge stands- find me new powers in PATRIOT.

Everyone talks about wire taps, email snooping, search warrants and access to medical and financial records, but law enforcement could get all of the above before PATRIOT, with a judge's consent. They still have to procure a judge's signature now.

PATRIOT didn't really do a damn thing other than make it a little bit easier for cops to do their jobs. If you go read it, you'll find ( I think) that the whole stir over PATRIOT is much adieu about nothing. It could (should) have been 2 pages long.

[taco]

Quote: But if Hitlarly gets in power...

Never fucking happen.

Here me out, this is my theory.

When you vote for all the local peoples on your local ballot, do you as a man find yourself choosing men over women?

You may not admit it to your wife or mother, but you know men do that.

[Rooflechicken]

Quote: Originally Posted by taco Never fucking happen. Here me out, this is my theory. When you vote for all the local peoples on your local ballot, do you as a man find yourself choosing men over women? You may not admit it to your wife or mother, but you know men do that.

I don't. But I agree that she will never be POTUS.

There's plenty of reasons to qualify and she doesn't have most of them.

Quote: Originally Posted by maladjusted My challenge stands- find me new powers in PATRIOT.

OK.

For 2 months we had a treasury department guy in our office going over every cash deposit for the last 5 years. I am now required to have an official written anti-money laundering policy. A designated compliance officer in my company AND AN OUTSIDE TESTING SERVICE to come and try to wash money through me. Now, technically i had to comply with the BSA of the 70's. Except now because of patriot act, I have incresed cost of doing business when i wasn't laundering money before. I am being punished for NOT LAUNDERING MONEY EVER. wtf?

[bologna.com]

Raise retail pricing.

STFU.

Go get a fruit fusion snapple and get wasted...

Mr. 0v3r:

Where is the power to do that in PATRIOT?